Round Up, your general purpose skepticide

June 22, 2010
By

Another week has passed and fun was had by all…

Blogland has fallen a bit flat the past weekend so not much to report (nothing of interest anyway). So I am going to start with a simple observation:

I think it’s really interesting (but I am easily entertained) to notice that there are a handful of people calling themselves “sceptics” (and it really is only a handful of them) and under this guise are professing their views as “critical thinking”. What is surprising is that it has really very little to do with critical thinking. What is even more surprising is that anyone cares…

But we do (the chiropractors, everbody else really doesn’t). We care because we studied hard to become chiropractors, we worked hard to become good clinicians, we worked hard to build up businesses with great reputations and all they have to do is write some ill-informed gumpf on a blog and we think the world has come crashing down. We are a vulnerable breed (clinicians) from a vulnerable profession (chiropractic) in an unsympathetic world (the blogosphere). But we love what we do. Every day we see those patients who have been having problems for years and years, and are now feeling so much better, are greatful for what we do and are happy to pay us for it… but still we feel insecure… even if the source of criticism is ill-informed, biased and bigoted. So why could this be?

In a nutshell:

  • because there is some truth to what they are saying, and because as a profession we haven’t really moved ahead to any substantial degree lately (the last century, give or take a few years) we seem to have difficulty identifying what truth they are saying, making it hard to spot that part of it that is bovine excrement.There are reasons for this lack of progress, and none are good.

My personal view is that this is great. This effort, for which it must be said they are not being paid, nor recognised (other than for some inter-geek backslapping down the virtual pub) ought to be seen by the chiropractic profession as a driver for improvement. But we need to stop cowering, rise to the challenge, formulate a coherent theory, test it and stake our claim, integrate in the healthcare spectrum and provide the services of which we are capable and proud. We need to stop believing their fabrications (yeah sure, you did all the work to take homeopathy out of the NHS, the budget and the current economical climatehas nothing to do with that. Sure, the Simon Singh case was a perfect example of why libel laws in England are disastrous) get our heads out of rectal passages and stick them together (although I would recommend a courteous shower prior to doing so) and stop making the same mistakes. That said, should they ever fall out of love with their current role, the function of the skeptic must be celebrated and meditated. As a profession, we need to be our own worst skeptic, without the complex phrasologies hiding vacatious knowledge (it’s a joke) or abuse of power but with courage, determination and humility.

In conclusion:

This is where we must be greatful and pray at the altar of the skeptic. Repeat after me:

The Ad Hominem Homilie

  • it might very well be placebo but you have as much evidence to support your version of events as I have to support mine
  • absence of evidence is grounds for doubt, not ridicule
  • show me your reference that the original chiropractic theory said that ” all disease is caused by spinal subluxations” before you bang on about it being nonsense
  • I can call myself doctor for I am a doctor of chiropractic and people far more qualified to judge my academic knowledge say I am worthy, eat my shorts
  • not all GP’s hate us, in fact I see more and more of them liking us, all they need is to see the results but you can never please every one all of the time
  • you’re allright really, but it’d be nicer if you were well fit-proper…innit

Amen


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  • http://www.chiropractorswarwick.co.uk Stefaan Vossen

    Hi Colin,
    I think I had that discussion with Edzard Ernst some time back, for which there is obviously no retort when the conclusion can only be “lack of evidence is not evidence of lacking”. The context of the statement you quote eludes me slightly but I am assuming that it refers to the relation of evidence in the context of the precautionary principle. In this discussion the principle of administering an even only potentially harmful treatment in the context of lack of evidence for that treatment leads to a natural conclusion that the treatment should not be administered. One thing that conclusion does not take account of is the cost of not adminsitering the treatment. Ultimately this puts the “pure RCT” approach to healthcare under impossible strain but I don’t for one minute conclude that this is what you are proposing. Secondly on this point I think it is interesting to note that the way forward in the face of lacking evidence to support a treatment it must be left to the individual to weigh up the potential risks to the potential benefits, but then… what are they if no good quality research exists?
    Personally I have by-passed some of this by pretty much saying (almost verbatim):
    “I think I can help you but you may die or be maimed in the process, that said if you don’t get better you’ll get your money back and if I have been negligent you can sue me”. What else can a conscientious practitioner do?
    If that is not the discussion you are referring to then maybe it is the one in the context of the discrepancy I proposed in practice methodology in research looking at manipulation vs exercise vs non-action? In this context I am sometimes surprised we are even seeming to do wel. As I think I have stated before, looking at back pain without looking at gait or orthognathic dysfunction is a recipe for relative failure, so the fact that we seem to do relatively well in a “spinal manipulation only” treatment protocol really does bode well once research is done including those assessment and treatment protocols for gait and bite. The astonishing thing is that this stuff has been around in chiropractic 30+ years…
    So, even if there were results verging on placebo, I would contest that until studies have included at least these protocols (to remove as many contributory “subluxations” if you like) the results would be non-representative of chiropractic theory and the fraction of chiropractic profession that believes itself to be “spinal manipulators” are going to have an interesting time trying to provide interesting results without including a broader view and understanding of the subluxation concept.
    Of course they could always do that later and return to the subluxation concept…

    Stefaan
    ps I will from now refer to subluxation as CoD (cause of dysfunction)

  • http://welshandgrumpy.blogspot.com/ Colin Jenkins

    @stefaan,

    “If in their view the absence of positive RCT’s constitutes lack of benefit”

    Have you actually seen that stated – i.e. an emphasis on lack of positive evidence rather than existence of negative evidence…?

    If EBM is a combination of clinical experience and (good) evidence of efficacy (and effectiveness) via studies, a lack of such evidence surely means a clinician can continue adjusting/treating based on his (and his patients) positive experiences – his anecdotal evidence if you like.

    I would have though the problems only start when there is negative evidence from good studies… for example a lack of efficacy above placebo…

    This is what has killed homeopathy. Not a lack of evidence, but the existence of negative evidence.

  • http://www.chiropractorswarwick.co.uk Stefaan Vossen

    HI Fedup,
    although I fully understand the sentiment, and at times I would just love to be able to give BW et al an injection of clinical reality in the arm (or an adjustment to that effect!) it is unlikely that they will ever see the sense in this, as they are so culturally biased as to presume that those stats are OK, because they are “worth the risk”. Of all the things I have had to trawl through on both twitter and blogs one central sentiment stuck with me: “if there is no benefit, then there should be no risk”. Ernst harps on about this and so do all the others. They have a point don’t you think? Thing is that they are not the judges of what constitutes “benefit”, they are merely the assessors of the evidence out there as to what in their view constitutes benefit. If in their view the absence of positive RCT’s constitutes lack of benefit, then let that be their truth. If that is their truth, you and I both know that their truth is based on a complete lie or delusion. If it is a lie then it would be proof of underlying/ulterior motives. If it’s a delusion then it’s proof of idiocy or simple-mindedness… All of which we as a group of individuals and profession are occasionally guilty of and of which they are finding evidence strewn across the interweb. Man in the mirror and all that…
    Stefaan

  • fed up

    Misconduct doctor J escapes being struck off
    Dr
    Dr j has been banned from giving diamorphine for three years

    A doctor who prescribed “potentially hazardous” levels of drugs to elderly patients who later died has escaped being struck off.

    Dr J will be allowed to continue working under certain conditions despite being found guilty of serious professional misconduct.

    She was accused of a series of failings in her care of 12 patients at Gosport War Memorial Hospital in the 1990s.

    Relatives and the General Medical Council criticised the panel’s ruling.

    Family members of those who had died shouted at the fitness to practise panel when the decision was delivered in central London.

    I, the son of R, one of the patients who died, shouted: “You should hang your head in shame.”

    The panel had previously heard that elderly patients were left in “drug-induced comas” after being over-prescribed painkillers and sedatives.

  • fed up
  • fed up
  • fed up

    “Medical negligence news
    Guardian NHS vascular surgery study reveals huge disparity in death rates

    Michelmores’ clinical negligence team provide a link to the Guardian article published on Sunday

    Doctors in the NHS do not know how well they are performing and whether they are more likely than their colleagues to kill or cure their patients, because of a widespread failure to collect the information, a Guardian investigation reveals.

    The results of a major exercise looking at one particular procedure – vascular surgery – show a massive variation in death rates among patients admitted for planned operations and reveal that some hospitals have unacceptably high mortality.

    It demonstrates the case for the closure of small hospital units, which the government has put on hold. Death rates vary from less than one in 50 in some hospitals to more than one in 10 in others.

    The investigation reveals the hollowness of patient choice, which the coalition, like Labour before it, has made the centrepiece of NHS policy. The data amassed by the Guardian from surgeons at 116 hospital trusts after an extensive freedom of information trawl is not publicly available – and is at odds with what appears on the NHS Choices website, set up to help patients choose where to be treated.

    The Guardian investigation focused on vascular surgery, where there is a significant risk of dying in planned operations, but the conclusions apply to every other branch of medicine – with the exception of heart surgery, where doctors collect and publish their individual results. They embraced transparency following the Bristol babies scandal in the late 1990s, when doctors were struck off the medical register over the deaths of babies who underwent operations for heart defects that they might have survived at other hospitals.”

    The interesting thing here is that heart surgeons collect their “individual” results.

    http://medneg.michelmores.com/Guardian-NHS-vascular-surgery-study-reveals-huge-disparity-in-death-rates-1267-999-News.htm

  • fed up

    The skeptics have kept our lawyes busy with apparent false claims of helping colic!!!

    http://www.youclaim.co.uk/medical-negligence-deadly-cases.htm

  • fed up

    I’m sick and tired of BW et al talking EBM and RCT’s are the only way. BW is constantly tweeting negative chiro reports. Well lets maybe put some of our own here. Don’t get me wrong I’m very gratefull for the medical profession we have, but for skeptics to trample on every CAM and hold a loft medicine is getting on my nerves.
    Medical Errors – A Leading Cause of Death
    The JOURNAL of the AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION (JAMA) Vol 284, No 4, July 26th 2000 article written by Dr Barbara Starfield, MD, MPH, of the Johns Hopkins School of Hygiene and Public Health, shows that medical errors may be the third leading cause of death in the United States.

    The report apparently shows there are 2,000 deaths/year from unnecessary surgery; 7000 deaths/year from medication errors in hospitals; 20,000 deaths/year from other errors in hospitals; 80,000 deaths/year from infections in hospitals; 106,000 deaths/year from non-error, adverse effects of medications – these total up to 225,000 deaths per year in the US from iatrogenic causes which ranks these deaths as the # 3 killer. Iatrogenic is a term used when a patient dies as a direct result of treatments by a physician, whether it is from misdiagnosis of the ailment or from adverse drug reactions used to treat the illness. (drug reactions are the most common cause).

    Prescription Drugs – Leading Killer in USA

    According to information we have received, a statistical study of hospital deaths in the U.S. conducted at the University of Toronto revealed that pharmaceutical drugs kill more people every year than are killed in traffic accidents.

    The study is said to show that more than two million American hospitalized patients suffered a serious adverse drug reaction (ADR) within the 12-month period of the study and, of these, over 100,000 died as a result. The researchers found that over 75 per cent of these ADRs were dose-dependent, which suggests they were due to the inherent toxicity of the drugs rather than to allergic reactions.

    The data did not include fatal reactions caused by accidental overdoses or errors in administration of the drugs. If these had been included, it is estimated that another 100,000 deaths would be added to the total every year.

    The researchers concluded that ADRs are now the fourth leading cause of death in the United States after heart disease, cancer, and stroke.

    Source: Jason, et al. (Lazarou et al), Incidence of Adverse Drug Reactions in Hospitalized Patients, Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), Vol. 279. April 15, 1998, pp. 1200-05. Also Bates, David W., Drugs and Adverse Drug Reactions: How Worried Should We Be? JAMA, Vol. 279. April 15, 1998, pp. 1216-17.

  • Paul

    pigs – they will go through bone like butter….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBvCPTK1MmY

  • dazed

    i use the compost bins at the bottom of my garden, slow but sure and the worms are soooo good for the soil.

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    Come on Fed up you must have killed a few clients. None of mine had anything good to say about me until I started shaking them, something I learned from a homeopath.

    The problem I have is how to get rid of the bodies in the basement, there are many Blue Wode has the figures. What do you do with your victims?

  • fed up

    Right. You know what, I have never been busier. A fellow today told me it’s the best he’s been in 20 years and a lady told me she has been pain free for the last month, 1st time for as long as she can remember. as I’ve said I’m not special. I am a CHIROPRACTOR I help people who have sometimes had problems for longer than we would like to imagine. I will from now on ignore sb and spew wank(blue wode) as i am starting to think that they have nothing better to do than vex their spleen. SB serves coffee and sells charms I’m pretty sure spew wank works in a call centre selling insurance or double glazing, so it’s goodnight from him and good night from me. ignore the septic sad people. Help the majority.

  • http://www.chiropractorwarwick.co.uk Stefaan Vossen

    Welcome to Jack of Kent, always nice to hear from you.
    Thank you Stephen, having quickly read your link I do believe indeed there is quite some commonality between the two statements
    Paul, I don’t think that the article carries any feelings of wishing to take chiropractic over with manual medicine, I just think it is making some very true, albeit painfully obvious observations: “we’ve got (a little bit more than) nowt”. That said I couldn’t see anything culminating to: “and we never will”. I think there is as great a responsibility in pointing out the gaps as there is in filling them in. The latter can’t happen when the former hasn’t been done.
    Hence why my thanks to those skeptics who managed to a) make meaningful comment and b) managed to refrain from digressing/associating with the meaningless. Those who have done both still deserve some love. Those who are expert at only the second deserve only our petty (but we have all tried to bask in other people’s glory getting caught out by poor imitation-there still is class in this world)
    Stefaan

  • Paul

    @ Stephen

    I would agree it is time chiropractic stopped cowering given the lack of evidence for the present medicopharma-technolgy driven healthcare presently holding our nations to ransom (literally).

    RE: http://www.chiroandosteo.com/content/13/1/17

    For one I never got this debate given its title…

    Subluxation: dogma or science? ie Subluxation: teachings or religion? Huh?

    The paper you referred to essentially describes how manual medicine made its push to take over and destroy the chiropractic profession from within and authoered by those who would wish this process complete.

  • http://blogs.nature.com/scurry/ Stephen Curry

    I was impressed by this statement:

    “This effort, for which it must be said they are not being paid, nor recognised (other than for some inter-geek backslapping down the virtual pub) ought to be seen by the chiropractic profession as a driver for improvement. But we need to stop cowering, rise to the challenge, formulate a coherent theory, test it and stake our claim, integrate in the healthcare spectrum and provide the services of which we are capable and proud.”

    I applaud the wish expressed – it is all of a piece with this paper which is written by chiropractors (open access):

    http://www.chiroandosteo.com/content/13/1/17

    I hope it will lead to meaningful change.

    But what has astonished me through exposure to the Singh case is the breadth of unsubstantiated claims made by many, many chiropractors in the UK about the range ailments they could treat by manipulating the spine. It is these exaggerated claims (many now withdrawn in reaction to complaints made to the GCC) that excited the interest and ire of sceptics.

    And by the way, the pubs are real (thank God).

  • http://www.jackofkent.com Jack of Kent

    @Rob

    “There is yet another definition of ‘charm’: A personality trait lacking in skeptics.”

    Oh, I am a skeptic, and I have loads of charm ;-) And I am a fan of Richard,as he knows.

    I was just wondering how you guys would react if you knew I could read Tarot :-) And I own a Ouji board…

  • Paul

    Off topic I realise

    @ George

    Isn’t science a religion?

  • Rob

    There is yet another definition of ‘charm’:

    A personality trait lacking in skeptics.

  • George

    Richard,

    Re: Whatsthe harm.net
    You should read the section on people harmed by “Feng Shui”.
    Or to give it, its’ other more sinister name – Geomancy. Perhaps we should alert HSE to the dangers of Feng Shui/Geomancy. Come to think of it, isn’t geomancy something you find in the Harry Potter books?

    @ Paul

    ‘ What is religious woo?’

    Sorry about the tautology there. It should just say religion, which is all woo.

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    I looked at that site and as the CAM stuff is predictable I thought “moon landing denial” might be interesting. Being a practitioner of woo and not being able to think critically, I need help here. Is it Bart or Buzz who is not thinking critically.

    What’s the harm in moon landing denial?

    Some people deny that the Apollo moon landings occurred as is documented in history. They claim it was a huge hoax perpetrated by the U.S. government.

    Here is a person who was harmed by someone not thinking critically.

    Bart Sibrel
    Age: 37
    Beverly Hills, California

    Punched in the face
    September 9, 2002
    Bart is a major proponent of moon hoax misinformation. When he decided to harrass astronaut Buzz Aldrin about it, Buzz fought back. Bart became the recipient of a punch to the face.

    I wonder if they will have a section on swine flu and critical thinking?

  • Paul

    “http://whatstheharm.net/”

    notice there is no mention of those dying after medical intervention – perhaps they haven’t the MB backup…

    what is religious woo?

    Is that when one questions how come something came from nothing (all of a sudden and without prompting)?

    Then out of this nothing someting came order? Unviverses, galaxies and planetary systems?

    Then out of this universal order came a sudden intelligent driven ability to self replicate?

    Then these self relicants having an inherent ability beyond this unversal intelligence toward survival and self maintenance, with an orientation toward thrival, salutogenesis and spiritual awakening?

    Is this what is meant by religious woo or the deductive reasoning that realised the basis of The 33 Principles, the basis of ChiropracTIC and the inherent relation of the human nervous sytem within such realisation that has really no challenge today?

    ?

  • Jeff Keogh

    George,

    “Religious woo really does kill people.”

    All woo kills people. Magical thinking exposes people unnecessarily to harm.

    http://whatstheharm.net/

    We’re well past the time that reality became the basis for people’s operating systems.

  • http://www.chiropractorwarwick.co.uk Stefaan Vossen

    @davidp thanks for the comments and thanks to Richard for inviting me to come here. I sincerely hope it will something other chiropractors resonate with.
    Kind regards
    Stefaan

  • http://www.chiropractorwarwick.co.uk Stefaan Vossen

    @LFMAO and @Skeptic Barrista
    I honestly don’t think anyone here is taking your misdemeanours half as seriously as you are taking the posts. But it’s OK, welcome to our world, we’ve had to laugh about this stuff and give overly complicated answers for a long time so maybe we have developed a more deepened sense of humour.

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    @LFMAO Best response ever??

    “Someone calmly points out that that he’s selling trinkets and the only people who associate them with woo are people like you and you calling that ‘protesting too much’? Hello!”

    I will tell you what surprised me, I thought SB might have a sense of humour. I could care less what he sells or who he sells it to or what he says about his coffee. I am so sorry for making fun of according to you “the best response ever” You should put your real name to that accolade and it might mean something.

    @ Skeptic Barista “Oh and just a technical point for Richard. I’ve never tried to convince the BCA of anything, never had any contact with them over subluxation claims, nor did I actually convince the GCC of anything …. I simply asked them a question, not my fault if they gave an answer that you don’t like”!

    Thats the point, the GCC or BCA did not need any convincing. Your question just gave them the excuse to make a statement they have been contemplating since 2002.

    The GCC did not give me an answer I did not like. They gave me and Blue Bode a completely different answer from the one they gave you and yes that bothers me and it should bother you. They told me that there was evidence for subluxation and that 160 people had considered this evidence and the WHO had published it.

    So let me ask you again does it not bother you that your source for rejecting the subluxation the GCC does not seem to be very reliable and perhaps confirmation bias has been an issue in drawing the conclusions you have about the subluxation.

  • George

    @ Skeptic Barista.

    ‘when we first moved in I used to love teasing their old customers’

    ‘it will be a good was(Sic) of flushing out the woo-followers so I can have a little skeptical fun with them. (Hmmm … I’m liking that idea more & more)’

    ‘Not long ago some old guy actually pulled a crystal out of his pocket and held it over a plain pair of silver earrings to see if they would be OK for his wife to wear, it seems she sometimes reacts to silver, but his crystal told him they would be OK. My staff didn’t tell me until afterwards (for obvious reasons).’

    What next Barista? – Badger baiting, pulling legs off spiders!

    Were you the kind of child at school who would poke fun at others wearing glasses, or who had ginger hair?

    Why the antipathy towards your paying customers? If they want to believe in woo and it’s not doing them or anyone else any harm, let them, if it makes them happy. Why do you want to humiliate these people? An old guy caring about his wife, OK he waived a crystal over them, so what. At least he cares which you obviously don’t.

    Better idea. Religious-woo, go down to your local Mosque/church/synagogue and poke fun at them too.
    Religious woo really does kill people.

  • fed up

    Not trinkets, charms is the word. Again a skeptic bed fellow alters the argument.

  • LFMAO

    @Skeptic Barista

    Best response ever.

    @RL Someone calmly points out that that he’s selling trinkets and the only people who associate them with woo are people like you and you calling that ‘protesting too much’?

    Hello!

  • davidp

    Good post Stefaan.

    “we need to stop cowering, rise to the challenge, formulate a coherent theory, test it and stake our claim, integrate in the healthcare spectrum and provide the services of which we are capable and proud

    I whole heartedly agree.

    You don’t actually need a full coherent theory – repeated good tests with clear results are enough, but they need to be really good tests.

    “As a profession, we need to be our own worst skeptic.” That’s certainly what scientists try to be. Their question times after talks are often very skeptical/critical. If the question times aren’t skeptical, the group or field isn’t being scientific. Sadly there are whole fields of ‘science’ that have low levels of skepticism, and produce a large proportion of junk.

    I’m glad you’ve found somewhere separate from your clinic website to post where you are both visible and not just comenting on other peoples blogs.

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    Me thinks Skeptic Barista doth protest to much

  • http://skepticbarista.wordpress.com/ Skeptic Barista

    Hi all,

    My usual policy is ‘Do not feed the trolls’ but here’s a quick response.

    The ‘therapy’ thing I’ll pretty much ignore as that was the previous owners of the shop, who left over 3 years ago ….. you certainly wont find anything newer.
    Must admit though that it’s kinda amusing and when we first moved in I used to love teasing their old customers when they rang up for some EFT or reiki therapy.
    You’ll find them listed on Page 11 here: http://www.free-expression.co.uk/Free Expression Issue 4.pdf

    Prior to that you’ll find references to House-E-House, selling furniture at the same address…again not me, but that won’t serve your purpose, so feel free not to mention it!

    Far more interesting though is the fact that at the mere mention of silver charms or Amber and you guys shoot off down the quackery route! Perhaps it’s something deeply engrained into the psyche of the CAM practicioner!

    At the word ‘charm’ you all invoke some form of magical meaning. You totally ignore the other meanings of the word, most dictionaries will also include a description of “a trinket to be worn on a bracelet, necklace, etc.”

    The mention of amber and people who want to call themselves ‘Doctor’ start describing some form of amulet to protect against black magic …… crazy when amber is just fossilised tree resin, millions of years old.

    And Moonstone is a gem variety of orthoclase (one of the Feldspar group of minerals) often from India & Sri Lanka.
    It has a Mohs’ hardness of around 6-6.5, a refractive index of 1.520-1.525, a specific gravity of 2.56-2.62 and a perfect clevage. None of which have any relevance to the woo claims you have quoted (as far as I’m aware)

    In short, nothing in any of my shops is offered with any Mythical, Mystical, Magical or Medical claims, either stated or implied (but you probably already know that).
    Actually I may just put up a sign in one of the cabinets stating as much …. it will be a good was of flushing out the woo-followers so I can have a little skeptical fun with them. (Hmmm … I’m liking that idea more & more)

    Not long ago some old guy actually pulled a crystal out of his pocket and held it over a plain pair of silver earrings to see if they would be OK for his wife to wear, it seems she sometimes reacts to silver, but his crystal told him they would be OK. My staff didn’t tell me until afterwards (for obvious reasons). Oh how I want them to bring the earrings back saying she can’t wear them – No refund, crystal said yeeees!

    I also get customers who are reiki practicioners, believe they have psychic abilities and even those who use homeopathy. They all know my views! One guy this week even said he’s been told he should visit a chiropractor to have some treatment on his neck … don’t worry I told him all about the dangers and have given him some info (extract of Bronfort report, GCC statement etc) and a copy of this article from ‘sense about science’ http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/index.php/site/project/380
    He’s decided to try Physio – sensible chap!

    Oh and just a technical point for Richard. I’ve never tried to convince the BCA of anything, never had any contact with them over subluxation claims, nor did I actually convince the GCC of anything …. I simply asked them a question, not my fault if they gave an answer that you don’t like!

    Oh and if anybody does drop in for a coffee …. that’s perfectly OK :-)

    Anyway, that’s enough crumbs for the trolls to feed on.

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    “Chiro Troll”? is that something SB sells for children with colic or is it a remedy for “evil eyes”?

  • fed up

    And since we pointed out his hypocrisy and had a good laugh he has been descibing me as his Chiro Troll. Ad Hom!!! A skeptic that sells charms and resorts to ad homs?

  • fed up

    Its him, and he’s selling CHARMS from his gift shop. He recently sold a tiger eye charm to an unsuspecting punter and then told somebody NOT to have his neck adjusted by a chiro!!!!

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    No, it cant be, Skeptic Barista, “the tea boy who dunked the GCC subluxation” a paid up sandel wearing, touchy feely Liberal Democrat, Tory? Please say it isnt true SB.

    Who knows what happened when they took that overdose of Homeopathy, these are the first signs of side effects

  • Paul

    Hold on – is this for real?

    Has this skepdick barista some involvement with an alternative therapy?

    ???

  • Rob

    He will be tapping his head over that one.

    Maybe he is not ‘Emotionally Free’.

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    Am I right in understanding that “Skeptic Barista” http://skepticbarista.wordpress.com who convinced the BCA and GCC that subluxation was meerly a historical term and a clinical myth.
    Is selling “Amber” which is a “charm against black magic and the evil eye”.

    Perhaps he is working undercover!

  • fed up

    Put a post on Skepticbaristas site about a skeptic selling lucky charms and a link to this post. Guess what. He removed the post lol.

  • Rob

    You think that is funny – I also found this link to the same address:

    The Nook Corner Therapy Centre
    http://www.tiscali.thebodyguide.co.uk/Listing.aspx?ac=14077

    What is listed as the only therapy there? EFT – Described by the Skeptical Inquirer as a pseudoscience. Ho, ho ho. Show me the evidence.

    Also on the barista’s website he describes that the way they make coffee “creates a difference you can really taste”. Sounds like a claim. Does he have double-blinded evidence for that?!!!

  • fed up

    LMFAO he is selling this.

    “Amber
    An amber bead worn on a string around the neck was an old charm against black magic and the evil eye.”

    “Tiger Eye Healing Properties
    •Protection
    •Clear thinking
    •Personal empowerment
    •Integrity
    •Willpower

    •Practicality
    •Grounding
    •Power
    •Courage
    •Grace

    Tiger Eye Associations:
    Chakras – Sacral Chakra, Solar Plexus Chakra
    Zodiac – Capricorn
    Planet – Sun
    Element – Fire, Earth
    Typical colours – golden-brown, blue, red

    See Tiger Eye Jewellery.

    Tiger Eye is an 18th Anniversary gemstone.

    Tiger Eye, also known as Tigers Eye, is a variety of Chalcedony.

    A stone of protection, Tiger Eye may also bring good luck to the wearer. It has the power to focus the mind, promoting mental clarity, assisting us to resolve problems objectively and unclouded by emotions. Particularly useful for healing psychosomatic illnesses, dispelling fear and anxiety. Useful for recognising one’s own needs in relation to the needs of others. Balancing yin-yang and energising the emotional body, Tiger Eye stabilises mood swings, imbues us with willpower, purpose, courage and self-confidence, and releases tension.

    Tiger Eye treats eyes, throat and reproductive organs, releases toxins, alleviates pain and is helpful in repairing broken bones and strengthening the alignment of the spinal column.

    In addition to the generic healing properties of Tiger Eye, specific colours have additional attributes”

    “Moonstone Healing Properties
    •Happiness
    •Good fortune
    •Nurturing
    •Mothering
    •Unselfishness
    •Humanitarian
    •Love

    •Hope
    •Spiritual insight
    •Easy childbirth
    •Safe travel
    •New beginnings
    •Abundance
    •Ancient wisdom

    Moonstone Associations:
    Chakras – Third Eye Chakra, Solar Plexus Chakra
    Birthstone – June
    Zodiac – Cancer, Libra, Scorpio
    Planet – Moon
    Element – Water
    Typical colours – white, cream, yellow, blue, grey, peach/pink

    See Moonstone Jewellery.

    Moonstone is a 3rd Anniversary gemstone.

    Moonstone is composed Orthoclase and Albite, two species from the Feldspar group.

    A stone for “new beginnings”, Moonstone is a stone of inner growth and strength. It soothes emotional instability and stress, and stabilises the emotions, providing calmness. Moonstone enhances intuition, promotes inspiration, success and good fortune in love and business matters.

    Moonstone aids the digestive system, assimilates nutrients, eliminates toxins and fluid retention, and alleviates degenerative conditions of skin, hair, eyes, and fleshy organs such as the liver and pancreas. It stimulates the pineal gland and balances hormonal cycles, being excellent for PMS, conception, pregnancy, childbirth, and breast-feeding. Moonstone is also beneficial to men in opening the emotional self.”

    LMFAO I hope non of these explanations can be found in his gift shop.

  • fed up

    lmfao a very active skeptic is sellin charms lol.

    Charm or charms may refer to:

    In paranormal magic:

    “Lucky charms” such as amulets, touch pieces and painted pebbles
    Charm bracelet, an item of jewelry worn around the wrist that carries personal charms
    Italian charm bracelet
    Spell (paranormal), when a charm is a spell, it is usually traditional in form and often in verse
    Similar to blessing, the infusion of something with holiness, divine will, or one’s hopes”

  • fed up

    Er I think skepticbarista would love it.
    Cics has just been founded. Chiropractors in coffee shop.

  • rob

    Perhaps we should all discuss how to respond to the skeptics over a coffee. I suggest this place:

    http://www.nookcorner.co.uk

    Perhaps someone would like to phone up and see if chiropractors are welcome.

  • fed up

    amen.

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