British Chiropractic Association asks the General Chiropractic Council to seek prescribing rights for its members

May 2, 2010
By

Picturbnne1 A ballot of BCA members has resulted in 78% of the votes cast (which was not that many), being in favour of asking the GCC to approach the Medicines Healthcare Regulatory Authority to set in motion a proposal to secure prescribing rights for chiropractors. This is a sad day for chiropractic, but at least the BCA has finally come out and nailed their colours to the mast. However as with the Simon Singh case they will push ahead showing disregard for the rest of the chiropractic profession in the UK and internationally. Since the early 90s the BCA has tried to reinvent itself three times and now there new vision is medipractors on the NHS

In October Richard Brown was appointed BCA president and to be fair to him he is the first BCA president in my time who has come out and declared openly the Councils intention to medicalise chiropractic. He stated “For the BCA to maintain credibility as a professional organisation it must examine itself closely and determine its future direction”

Richard Brown presented a paper to the membership  outlining the BCA councils intentions, (which are supported by the AECC and the Welsh Institute of chiropractic) to “bring about a cultural shift within the BCA” and be evidence based. Whether this means they were not being “evidenced based” when they produced the “happy families” leaflet is not clear.

I support anybody exposing unethical marketing practices, but quiet how alienating the vast majority of the worlds chiropractors with prescribing rights, fits into the BCA paradigm of chiropractic excellence is anyone’s guess, when the very people who do not have the skill to perform a chiropractic adjust will be the onesass prescribing and playing “doctors”.

cartoon If a patient needs NSAIDs, refer them to the experts in prescribing, medical doctors and let chiropractors be the experts in WOO as the sceptics call it. I can not see a day when medical professionals will be describing Richard Brown et al, as  NHS Consultants in Musculoskeletal Medicine?? Then again I never thought I would see the day chiropractors would give up on chiropractic and start  prescribing.

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  2. Richard Brown Vice President of British Chiropractic Association argues that the criticism of his profession is wide of the mark
  3. Despite the damage done by the BCA the chiropractic profession should not seek “legitimacy” through the biomedical model
  4. The McTimoney Chiropractic Association would seem to believe that chiropractic is “bogus”. Posted June 2009
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  • Richard

    What you are talking about is capatilism and you may be right that eventually it is greed and selfishness that may destroy chiropractic, if it has not already happened in the UK.

  • http://www.chiropractorswarwick.co.uk Stefaan A.L.P. Vossen

    I am very sorry Steve, but insurance, medical doctors/drug companies are not all one and the same. They are completely different beasts with entirely different economical pressures. Could you please tell me how you figure that?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-Brown/100000249971116 Steve Brown

    The drug companies are the insurance companies so why would an insurance company want to pay a chiropractor for his services? We are talking about trillions of dollars/Drug/insurance/medical/ industries. Chiropractors will become extinct if “They/chiropractors fail to understand that the; insurance,medical doctors/drug companies/ are one in the same. Think about it, when a patient sees his MD the doctor writes 3 or more prescriptions say/ one for diabetes, one for high blood pressure, one for the heart, another for anxiety, and one for sleep. Ok, now the insurance pays the MD say 90 dollars, but with the mark up on medicines the insurance company makes a profit. Insurance companies and drug companies together make up a multi trillion dollar global industry and they are two sides of the same coin. But the dumb Chiropractors dont get this. Why should an insurance company pay a Chiropractor? Whats in it for the insurance and drug company? Nothing. Thats why Chiropractors will become extinct. Chiropractors are violating the most fundamental rule of commerce which is you give and you recieve. The insurance/drug companies do not make money when a Chiropractor treats a patient , but the drug/insurance industry does make money from the MD. Chiropractors expect something for nothing. All Chiropractors have to do is to combine all their resources to pass legislation that will give them the legal right to prescribe medicine. Then the insurance/drug companies will see to it that Chiropractors are paid by Insurance companies because then Chiropractors will be making money for the drug and insurance companies. This is not a philosophy issue/ this is a matter of pure/ ruthless economics.

  • Slbrown51

    The drug companies are the insurance companies so why would an insurance company want to pay a chiropractor for his services? We are talking about trillions of dollars/Drug/insurance/medical/ industries. Chiropractors will become extinct if “They/chiropractors fail to understand that the; insurancemedical doctors/drug companies/ are one in the same. Think about it, when a patient sees his MD the doctor writes 3 or more prescriptions say/ one for diabetes, one for high blood pressure, one for the heart, another for anxiety, and one for sleep. Ok now the insurance pays the MD say 90 dollars, but with th emark up on medicines the insurance company makes a profit. Insurance companies and drug companies together make up a multi trillion dollar global industry and they are two sides of the same coin. But the dumb Chiropractors dont get this. Why should a insurance company pay a Chiropractor? Whats in it for the insurance and drug company? Nothing. Thats why Chiropractors will become extinct.  

  • bob

    When other professions can do what you can do and do it for the same reason, WE DON’T NEED YOU! To emulate the medical model of ‘treating’ conditions that are treated by other professions is NOT offering anything unique to the world, especially if you use drugs. Most amazing is how there are things we know but do NOT believe. We KNOW the ‘LAW of HOMEOSTASIS’ that confirms ALL living things strive for life. [No that is NOT a religious belief, it is a valid scientific principle]. The concept alone should give even the most frustrated chiro-wannabe-anMD the idea that there are two directions one can take [and you can take BOTH at the same time] One road most traveled is to address the particular body part or system that is adapting to the best of its ability under the particular circumstances (Law of Homeostasis) but has been determined that it was not liked. The traditional method of choice is drugs followed by surgery. The second road, less traveled is to improve the body. The methods are directed at providing the body with better circumstances for the body to strive. Such methods as nutrition [not nutrition for a particular part/system ] but for the body to function better. The same for exercise to improve the body [as opposed to rehabing a particular part.] Them there is Chiropractic, pure and simple, the body functions better withOUT structural aberrancy termed vertebral subluxation than with. The OBJECTIVE is SOLELY to provide the body with a BETTER circumstance to strive [and I did NOT say or imply that you feel better or the particular part returns to predetermined averages]  Yes, there is credibility to CHIROPRACTIC that holds up to scrutiny for it is logical, rational and reasonable. Medicalizing Chiropractic only serves to create ANOTHER allopathic profression that already is well represented. 

  • http://www.chiropracticlive.com Richard Lanigan

    Brett Kinsler is pro chiropractors prescribing and he has interviewed chiropractors who see this as progress. A good discussion going on at his blog check it out.
    http://kinslerpress.com/blog/2011/03/new-mexico-bomb-shelter-and-pharmaceutical-rights-for-chiropractors/#comment-784

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  • John

    Or are wanna be medical doctors

  • http://www.chiropracticlifehove.com Karen McMinn

    There are some chiropractors who just wanna be medical doctors!

  • Pingback: Raising 5 Children with Chiropractic: An Interview with Karen McMinn | The Atlas of Life

  • Garland Glenn

    While I’m sure some will take issue with what I’m about to say…. after 25 years in practice here goes any way….

    This is the advice I have given for years to those interested in becoming chiropractors:
    1. Go to the best academic school you can gain admission to. You’re not going to go back later in your career and learn the basic science stuff. The patient deserves a doctor who knows what they’re doing. Personally I attended the Nation College of Chiropractic (now Nation Health Sciences University) in Chicago because a) their students have scored the highest on the National Board exams since the exams came into existence b) we had access to 4 outpatient clinics in the Chicago area (in those clinics we saw everything from miscarriages to gunshot wounds) and they had an inpatient facility where we were able to keep patients over night when needed.
    2. While you might learn to adjust people in school, it takes years of practice to truly understand what it means to be a chiropractor as opposed to a manipulator. Much of the friction going on is because there are manipulators who think they’re chiropractors and because they don’t really know what chiropractic is, they don’t have a clue. You may get some philosophy while in school, but you become a chiropractor through years of doing and seeing miracles. This brings up a major flaw in the educational process. These things are learned from those who’ve been doing for years. The older members of the profession have to teach the younger. These experienced doctors are busy. They’re busy because they know what they’re doing. In my experience most of those who teach do so because they weren’t busy enough in practice. In an ideal world those who have been successful would be the ones who are rewarded with the invitation to teach the next generation. The crowning achievement to a career would an invitation to teach. In the mid 1990’s I was offered a teaching position at AECC and turned it down. I did so because I didn’t feel I was yet worthy of the trust to teach. In my experience I’ve only ever meet two professors who were worthy of the next generation of chiropractors. When I started in practice I took over a clinic that had been in existence between the doctor and his father before him for 65 years. National taught me to be a doctor. He, Dr. Florence taught me to be a chiropractor.

  • Adam

    The cost, perhaps.

  • Garland Glenn

    Theman do you have an aversion to US schools? If so why?

  • Paul

    Theman – why don’t you speak directly to BCC itself.

    It is a new college and so not accredited fully.

    Speak to the college instead of posting here – you are wasting your time.

  • http://312 theman

    BCC isnt supported from Norway it seems. As it can’t be found in any of sites which gives me the oppurtunity to get money-support from my country. So I might not be able to afford it..
    And in the application form for BCC it asks you which grade of science etc you have.. well I dont know which one I need cause it doesn’t say. I would try to apply for it next year, but I will have absolutely no Idea if I can ever get in. seems like you need to learn spanish as well >_<

    So basicly, I would like to go to the school but its not yet reliable.. I've got to speak to some teachers and stuff and see what comes up

  • dazed

    @chiroEVB
    there is no need to prescribe analgesia – people can buy what they need over the counter or get a prescription from their GP.

    In the UK it is likely these prescriptions would be private and therefore expensive – people can get cheaper via the NHS.

    Also, there is no such thing in the UK as a TC – you are either a chiropractor or not. And there is no restriction on the type of intervention used whether you are a registered chiropractor or a free range spinal therapist (ie a person not registered but using spinal manipulation an adjuncts to adjust the skeletal system).

    There would be many hurdles to jump to get prescribing rights and as stated above, a major hike in insurance costs, plus tons of paperwork and training to be safe and effective.

  • chiro EVB

    Chiropractors are DOCTORS of Chiropractic (DC) , and not TECHNICIANS of Chiropractic (TC).
    As a DC, i should be free to use whatever conservative tool i would like to …: Manipulation/adjustment – Graston – ART – COX – Thompson – Petibon – CBP – or analgesic drug or Vitamins ….We should not have any pb with that.

    a TC, should be limited to use only adjustement/manipulation, and not COX, ART, Graston, Vitamins, etc …

    Please we have to evolve !

  • Rosemary

    Mark,
    Do you know of a good hit man?

  • Mark

    Why is Margeret Coats still in charge of a profession that she does not even respect? How have you British people not thrown her out, or accidently run her over with a car?

    This is the driving force behind the destruction of chiropractic in Europe! This woman needs to GOOOOOOOOOO!

  • Mark

    I can’t think of anything worse than taking on the responsibility of higher risk care through prescriptions. Who will pay my higher PI insurance premium???

  • Paul

    Theman you really have two questions to answer for yourself: Do you want to be a ChiropracTOR or just another allied medical professional?

    If you do not understand the difference I ll help you – it is the latter. Please find another profession we have enough wanna be medics destroying our profession from within.

    If you want to be a chiropractor then the question of where you would want to study is alo easily answered – Barcelona.

    To find out their subject requirements its probably best to email them rather than posting here.

  • http://312 theman

    ah I see. Well my main concern comes down to that this year im going to take the extra science and stuff I need for my chiropractic education, but if I have to change school for my chiro then i probably have to take other subjects as well this year so it’s quite crucial for me to find out asap :P I’d gotta look more into it, but its really hard to find exactly what I need subject-wise to get into each school :/

  • Adam

    theman, you know Paul is using language designed to be read by people already having a significant background in chiropractic; which can be confusing if you are new.

    In a stricly legal sense Bournmouth, Glamorgan and I presume McTimmoney give courses that will allow graduates to register with the GCC as chiropractors. As you are reading Richard’s site I guess you have picked up that there is a feeling that these courses don’t teach traditional Chiropractic such as Richard and Paul practice, but rather a biomedically oriented system of physical treatment: Medipractor is a derogotary term used by traditional chiropractors to describe non-traditional chiropractors, the implication being that they are wannabe medics.

    You are not being advised that British schools don’t exist, just that Barcelona and New Zealand may teach more traditionally.

  • Paul
  • http://312 theman

    hmm.. isnt it extremely hard to get into the school in barcelona and new zealand? anyone know ?

  • Rosemary

    Richard,
    I love your statement on wisdom! You can do the reverse – put a tangerine in a savoury salad ;)

    Anyways up, the knowledge chiros gain at the AECC may be good but what about philosophy – less of that now than when you were there. So many of the students graduating are non vitalistic unless they’ve had their eyes opened by outside sources. They’re also often quite fearful.

    I would suggest it’s worth potential students making the effort to go to Barcelona and, even though we await the first years graduation with anticipation, we should remember that Adrian Wenban heads that school. As a great academic and vitalistic chiropractor, I can’t see him letting the students down in terms of philosophy, art and science of chiropractic.

    There is also, of course, the New Zealand College and, whilst it may take more effort to go there, their teaching all round is sound.

    Surely it’s better for a student to graduate from a vitalistic college than a non vitalistic one where it may take them years, if ever, to see the light. So many AECC students and, even worse, those from Glamorgan are disadvantaged in this way.

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.

    I was trained at AECC and if I was starting out again, I would probably do the same again because if you are going to reject the biomedical model for healthy people you need to know something about it. I would never criticise the knowledge I picked up at AECC, and I have visited all the main US colleges and the three UK ones and Surrey. To be a good chiropractor you need to be able to locate and adjust a subluxation and offer advice so people will hold their corrections. I am excited about the Barcelona school, but we will have to wait for its first graduates before passing judgement.

    The professions failure to get across to the public what chiropractors do, is whats holding us back. Someone came into the clinic the other day looking for a second opinion from our Osteopath. The lady had seen a “principled chiropractor” over 200 times in three years for back pain and its not better she tells the Osteopath. I have met a number of Glamorgan graduates in Ireland and have been impressed by their enthusiasm for chiropractic despite their biomedical education.

    Being stupid is not exclusive to the graduates of any college. The chiropractic profession needs lots of wise people not more knowledge.

  • Paul

    Stefan you tell me what is right with please instead

  • http://www.chiropractorswarwick.co.uk Stefaan Vossen

    ctic…
    Stefaan

  • http://www.chiropractorswarwick.co.uk Stefaan Vossen

    @ Paul
    What do you feel is wrong with the AECC? The colleague who joined me at my clinic is perfectly well equipped to practice chiropra

  • Paul

    Norway confirms nothing – medipractic is the accepted norm there now.

    Why use any second class college in the Uk when there is a first class college in Spain which you will be due all the same student grants etc?

  • http://www.chiropractorswarwick.co.uk Stefaan Vossen

    AECC produces people who could make some very good chiropractors… But some people expect to be chiropractors by the time they graduate. I grew up in a family full of chiropractors and feel I am only just starting to understand it after 7 years in practice. Some colleges have a more consistent “chiropractic culture” inherent to them. They tend to be US institutions. The US chiropractic profession is not doing very well. Maybe the chiropractic culture should not be inherent to the institutions but the profession. I think AECC is a very good example of how it should be done. Maybe bar for the fact that students should be explained from the start what the crack is in terms of the fact that they won’t, strictly speaking, get the big picture the minute they graduate. Instead they should be repeatedly told that they can go out to chiropractors in the field, go to seminars and listen to external lecturers, read voraciously and discuss at length and till late at night, whilst simultaneously attempting to graduate to become safe, sane ad reliable clinicians with enough theoretical and clinical background to do some good for which they can charge a fee.
    This way they will maybe not feel like they have to start prescribing, just because they didn’t “get it” the minute they graduated…
    Stefaan

  • http://312 theman

    I was thinking of using the one in bournemouthm, but what exactly is medipractic? in Norway, AECC is confirmed as a chiropractic school :S

  • http://312 theman

    holy ¤¤¤¤ so this basicly means that I can no longer become a chiropractic through glamorgan or aecc? that might give me a few years of complication >_<

  • Paul

    Presently no chiropractic college exists in the UK.

    A medipractic college exists in Bournemouth.

    A Manipulative Physiotherapy course that qualifies their graduates in taking and reading xrays exists in Glamorgan.

    McTimmoney therapy have a college too in the UK and due to political maneouvring, are eligible for further education courses in the former mentioned colleges and they too masquerade as chiropractors instead of proudly declaring themselves to be McTimmoney Therapists.

    Spain presently has a chiropractic college thanks in whole to a group of chiropractors who had had enough.

    http://www.bcchiropractic.es/eng/english.htm

    Don’t see this happening anytime soon in the UK

  • http://312 theman

    heya, which chiropractic university in uk is the best in your opinion? glamorgan/aecc..?

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    You dont have give them any meaningfull information, just an e-mail address which is confidential. You dont even need a picture.

    Going along with the complaints helps the GCC. The BCA should have said these are vexatious cases and if you prosecute them we will advise our members to go onto non practising status and call themselves “spinal health care practitioners” until its over, would have cost the GCC £1,300,000

  • Paul

    The bail out of 100K was passed by the ECU despite the arrogant extortionate manner it was put.

    It was presented as a requirement to help the BCA process the huge number of complaints presented to the GCC as a result of the Singh debacle and as a help to their members.

    Not sure how it will benefit the GCC.

    I agree Richard the BCA will no doubt try and blame someone else but I think in Europe at least Brown is seen as a snake, willing to threaten the ECU for 100K rather than explaining his request.

    He is also widely known as a chiropractic detractor stating the concept of ‘innate intelligence’ lacks ‘biomedical’ evidence.

    Richard I Would join you in facebook only I am not on facebook.

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    “Regulation” is what most ECU members aspire to. The BCA as the dominant member of the ECU has always presented registration as a good thing and has always completely ignored the big elephant sitting in the corner. The same BCA people who pushed for it in the 90s are the same people putting their spin on UK regulation and leading the profession into the health service. Would you rather be an Osteopath in the US or in the UK?

    Brown and Metcalfe and Dixon are telling chiropractors the Simon Singh/Skeptic coalition is an attack on chiropractic which can spread to Europe. No doubt they will explain their defeat as weakness created by subluxation chiropractors who treat a lot of children making exaggerated claims about the efficacy of chiropractic and they were reluctantly forced to sue to protect the BCAs “reputation”
    My version would be the BCA like the GCC are bullies who like to intimidate their critics with lawyers. This time they picked on someone with and army behind them and a brother with very deep pockets and got battered.

    Not only that the BCA gave tacit approval to the regulator in joining the Skeptic coalition (making chiropractors under investigation pay their registration fees) and attack the diverse chiropractic profession in an effort to introduce a scope of practice and medicalise chiropractic just like the Osteopaths in the US. This is probably the BCAs last throw of the dice to achieve control of chiropractic in the UK and depending who they talk to they will point the finger at McTimoney, UCA, subluxation etc etc, everyone except themselves and the regulator.

    The only thinh that amazes me is that it has been so hard to convince chiropractors that this is hapening. I would never have left the register if I though there was any hope of changing this direction the profession is headed. Unfortunately only 50 have joined the group “Chiropractic care, not prescription care on Face book.
    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=122568047754270&ref=mf the chiropractic profession will need thousands for it to have an affect, alternatively chiropractors will continue on this path with the GCC. Fear does weird things to the mind.

  • dazed

    OOPS! Major typo
    3) the total number of chiros in the UCA, SCA and MCA is around 1100 and that equates to approx 40% of the total No of UK registered chiros and do NOT want prescribing rights!

    Thank you for spotting that, Paul.

    Could you or Ralph tell us anymore about this proposed bail out of the GCC by the ECU – it sounds like a non starter to me. I mean why would the ECU be even remotely interested in supporting the UK regulator that does not subscribe to ECCE standards for education? I can understand that the ECU might consider helping the BCA out in a fix – afterall, the BCA are founder members of the ECU and I think the largest National Association represented there.

  • Paul

    ?

    3) more than 40% (total of UCA, SCA & MCA full members) want prescribing rights?

    Agreed and now the BCA want the ECU to bail out the GCC because of what was an entirely predictable response to their challenging Simon Singh (who incidently has never said why he singled out the BCA).

  • dazed

    What those numbers say to me is that :

    1) less than 50% of full BCA members want prescribing rights
    2) less than 20% of all registered chiropractors want prescribing rights
    3) more than 40% (total of UCA, SCA & MCA full members) want prescribing rights
    4) 20% of the profession who are not in associations don’t even know this is going on.

    Yet another example of the BCA exec setting the agenda at the GCC and the views of the other 60% of the profession being ignored.

  • Paul

    sorry in regard to the BCA numbers voting toward medicalisation, the BCA stated

    “a postal ballot of all eligible members has taken place to seek their views on whether the BCA should ask the GCC to approach the Medicines Healthcare Regulatory Authority to set in motion a proposal to secure Limited Prescribing Rights for chiropractors. The total number of votes cast was 661 which represented a 57.9% return on the voting papers. Of the votes case, 519 members voted in favour and 142 members voted against. Of those members who responded, 78.5% were in favour of the proposals.”

    Was it apathy on the part of those BCA members not wishing to leave the profession or did they silently agree?

  • dazed

    maybe the homeopaths had more to do with it than the chiros?

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    I thought he would win by a landslide, Simon Singh and all the skeptic bloggers were promoting him.

    Perhahs chiropractors have more power than they think?

  • dazed

    Richard, I didn’t hear of any concerted campaign by McT or anyone else to keep Evan Harris out of parliament. But it may well be that his views on CAM alienated some voters. Is it not more ikely that people simply voted conservative rather than libdem? After all he only lost by 176 votes.

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    I am told the BCA balloted members in a postal ballot and 57% responded, however I am not sure I would trust any of their methods, I was never able to get enough votes to be a BCA council member, I only needed about 70 votes and possibly 200 BCA members voted for me in the GCC elections.

    Dazed did the McTims campaign against Evan Harris in Abingdon, would he have known Abingdon is the home of McTimoney college and their patients. Do you think his views on CAM contributed to his election defeat.

  • dazed

    HI Patrick, I understand that the BCA vote on Prescribing rights was actually taken at the AGM and so the nearly 60% response rate is not for the whole membership. Just those who were at the AGM which was less than 100 people……. Figures were published in Contact magazine and if Richard or anyone has a copy, they could check my info for accuracy.

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    The JCC broke up because the BCA were not getting their own way. The BCA went for statutory regulation because they thought it would give them the teeth to enforce their will. To be fair to Margaret Coats she treated all chiropractors equally badly.

    The BCA rejected the ACC paradigm and re defined their BCA chiropractor with a BCA professional statement in 2002. The BCA sued Simon Singh without consulatation and have recently anounced another version of the BCA chiropractor. If the other associations got their act together they could easily isolate the BCA leadership. The big problem is apathy and the profession lacks leadership

  • Patrick

    Hi Dazed,

    thank you for that grace – I do not believe it of the McTimmoney graduate chiropractors as a whole but do in earnest beileve it of their leadership.

    If what you note that of 1200 BCA members @60% replied [simply due to my lack of maths] (720) that @80% (576) were in favour – surely this meand that less than a quarter of the profession will be dragging the chiropractic profession europe wide in notoriety?

    Are the memberships of the SCA, UCA and McT so split?

    Is the ECU? Have the BCA engineered this?

    Would we ever see a petition for those chiropractors seeking the rights of medical practitioners be asked to leave the chiropractic profession, retrain and become medical professionals rather than creating confusion as to the dividing lines between such professions?

  • dazed

    I’m not annoyed with you for your views on Christina Cunliffe – I may not agree with you, but I can understand how you have arrived at such a thought. I do think you misjudge her and the McT leadership on this issue tho.

    I would draw your attention to this exerpt from the GCC Cuncil minutes Nove 2009

    Correspondence regarding prescribing rights
    Members noted that

    • a ballot conducted by the BCA had identified that of the 57.9% of its members that responded, 78.5% were in favour of limited prescribing rights for chiropractors
    • the executives of the SCA, MCA and UCA were strongly opposed to any prescribing of medication by chiropractors.

  • Patrick

    Hi Richard,

    thank you – your 33 principles paper was very very good and I had not come across it before – no not a UCA member – never saw a group to promise so much and deliver so little. No Principles no conviction. I am not involved with any association – never found one I wanted to sign up with.

    Dazed if you are right and chiropractic prescription will be on a private basis then this is an argument that could only have been meant to split the profession much as it has in New Mexico recently and see where everyone stood for some other iniative. Worse still are the numbers they provide to back this up.

    Do the BCA know no shame?

    I know this might annoy you Dazed but I have to agree with Richard if Chrstina Cunliffe thought there was any milage in this or anything else for her college rather than the profession she would take it. Whilst the BCA Pedro Dixon and co have been found to be treacherous surely the MCT leadership (rather than its members) have been found to be opportunistic, sneaky and deceitful?

    If the physios are privy to this initiative surely they cannot be happy – have they made such moves?

    How have the ECU responded? Is this why the BCA behind the scenes had Druart removed and the Norwegian guy replace him?

    The BCA uses the ECU as an AECC old boys club. At least now many european countries have their own colleges – unfortunately the majority are medipractic spring ups backed by the ECU and only grant aided if such.

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    Hi Patrick,
    I am assuming you are a UCA member.
    I dont think the UCA should get off scott free. In 2008 they re-launched their magazine and called it “The 33 Principles” and asked me to write the introduction which I did http://www.chiropracticlive.com/?p=567 You can imagine my disappointment when they told me they could not publish the last part for fear of upsetting Margaret Coats et al. That was the day I knew the writing was on the wall for traditional chiropractic. I was one of the founder members of the UCA , we wrote the mission statement and core values.
    The UCA are happy to talk the talk, however they disappoint me more than either McTimoney or the BCA, because they generate all this enthusiasm in their young members and then do nothing that I am aware of to fight for their core values by walking the walk.

  • Patrick

    Dazed and Richard

    I don’t think either the BCA nor the McTimmoneys have the Chiropractic Profession at heart – if they did they would seek the closure of all three colleges in the UK, the disolution of the GCC and the creation of a chiropracty therapy or medipractic profeesion profession in the UK seperate to (but a bastard sibling) to our ChiropracTIC profession.

    Why would these chaps jealous of the medical guys and ignorant of the basis of the profession (The 33 Principles) not either leave our profession and retrain as medical practitioners or simply commit suicide?

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    No dazed, that was Patrick, not me I was commenting on your reply to Patrick.
    While McTs may not want prescribing today, if Christina Cunliffe saw mileage in prescribing they would go for it because their focus has always been on the interests of the McTimoney college rather the interests of the profession as a whole.
    If there was a vote I would be very surprised if more than 20% of the profession wanted prescribing, unfortunately what the profession wants is of little interest to the GCC.
    Has the ECU changed its attitude to McTimoney, I see Julie MacKay an OCC graduate is a keynote speaker at the ECU conference in London on May 13th

  • dazed

    With respect, Richard, it was you that mentioned McT

    ‘Will Wkend warriors the McTs be allowed such a right should it be enshrined? ‘

    and my response is that McTs DON’T WANT TO PRESCRIBE.

    If prescribing rights for chiros go forward 40% (UCA & MCA) of the profession are not interested. If a small No of BCA people want to take up their ‘right’ to prescribe, the administration costs and burden will be heavy. Who pays? Would there be an extra levy by the GCC on these individuals? Or would we all be expected to pay through the nose for this nonsense?

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    Hi Dazed,
    Its not the MCAs call. Its the regulators and the Education commitee who set standards for chiropractors in the UK. Medical doctor making up a fifth of the education committee and a physiotherapist chairing the committee may give us a clue as to what they will think
    Yes it would be up to individual chiropractors to take it prescribing, it wont be imposed however if the Simon Sing case thought us anything it is whatever a few idiot chiropractors do, its the entire profession that will pay.
    The regulation of medicines is funded by the pharmaceutical industry http://www.mhra.gov.uk/SearchHelp/Frequentlyaskedquestions/index.htm . The GCC will have no problem finding sponsors and I am sure they will but aside a bit to fund some studies for chiropractic and Vioxx. When the Health a social care act was being planned in the late 90s the GCC was consulted. It was in the Green paper, Dobson was health secretary.
    Most chiropractors disagreed with BCA on this issue nevertheless a vocal minority have persisted.

    They write articles talking about “The future of chiropractic” and the “scientific evidence” and if the whole profession continue to blindly accept the traditional model model of chiropractic, we will end up a “pseudoscientific medical cult”

    The sad thing about these type of comments is they generally go unchallenged as the BCA does not take responses from non members in their magazine and also successfully lobbies to ban the likes of me from ECU seminars, promoting the BCA view of the world unopposed.

    In 2007 a BCA chiropractor wrote in the BCA magazine Contact “What is happening regarding prescribing rights. Do we have a position, or is it conveniently forgotten in the interests of respecting diversity and a vocal minority? He went on to ask, Is there anything legally preventing me from enrolling on a prescribing course, would the profession ( again not sure if this includes the “philosophical fraternity”) support this?

    The answer to Eugene’s question is an overwhelming NO, according to the WFC identity survey. In 2005 the WFC assembly agreed to “Create one clear global identity for chiropractic that leads to greater public understanding, acceptance and utilisation of chiropractic services and therefore a greater future role for chiropractic with the public and within national health care systems”.

    One of their conclusions was that chiropractic is Non-drug/non-surgical health care and this is a key brand attribute The majority of the profession (79%) support the WFC’s policy statement opposing the use of prescription drugs
    A study by Pollentier and Langworthy published in Clinical Chiropractic in 2007 found that 76% of UK chiropractors agreed with the statement “Traditional chiropractic beliefs are an important and integral part of chiropractic” 10% disagreed. And 14% were not sure.

    This proposal has been gathering momentum since it was discussed at the September 2007 BCA AGM The proposal stated “That the BCA should firstly find out the requirements for the application of chiropractors to become non-medical supplementary prescribes, ensure these criteria can be met, and actively pursue this. The BCA should look at the possible training options to enable this undergraduate and post graduate training”.

    Despite the overwhelming evidence as to why the chiropractic profession should not get involved in prescribing. It is unfortunate that the largest UK chiropractic association did not take the opportunity to show leadership on this issue. They decided that the BCA Council should review the issue and report back to the membership next year which they did and announced it last summer but with the Simon Singh case and the complaints attracting all the attention, it was a good time to bury bad news. This is not new however I am hoping that the way the BCA the Simon Sing case will help people realise that if the BCA is behind it, its best to do something else.

  • dazed

    I am pretty sure that the MCA would NOT support prescribing rights for UK chiropractors but, if it does go ahead, then it would be upto individual chiros to take it up. It might be worth a FOI request to the DoH and/or the GCC to find out if any of the associations have communicated with them about this issue.

    However, there are some difficulties for the GCC if it does as they would have to administer and regulate the activity which would establish a specialist register.

    The GCC has avoided doing this in respect of Xrays as the responsibility for inspections and compliance with IMER rests with other bodies. Ths same sould not be true of prescribing.

    Additionally, unless employed in the NHS, all prescrptions written by Chiros would likely be private ones and if a patient can get free or subsidised NHS drugs, why would they want to pay for a private prescription?

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    Patrick, I have been fighting this since the government made it possible in 2001. The UCA presented a position paper to the department of health. The medicaliseation of chiropractic has been going on since the profession agreed to statutory regulation, which gave medipractors the powers to enforce changes. The trouble is there are no chiropractors who are prepared to resist and within 5 years the UK profession will be like the osteopaths in the US.
    It will be open to all registered Chiropractors, they will have to do a few weekend courses and then they can prescribe. The vast majority of UK chiropractors do not want this, the idiots who decided to sue Simon Sing want it, they believe this will stop the sceptics calling them quacks and they will be real doctors.
    I have also started a campaign on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=122568047754270&ref=mf and in the last 24 hours 31 people have joined so fingers crossed.
    The BCA speaks for UK chiropractic to the ECU and WFC and if the GCC puts prescribing into the code of practice the Genie is out of the bottle and there would be no going back. The BCA should be thrown out of the World Federation of Chiropractic for doing this.

  • Patrick

    Why would the BCA request such a thing?

    Wll this mean they will be able to prescribe prescription drugs?

    How have the other member associations of the ECU accepted this?

    Are they complicit or opposed to such a request?

    Will Wkend warriors the McTs be allowed such a right should it be enshrined? Weren’t they the subluxation heroes of not so long ago?

    Who allowed the GCC to take on board such oppositional professionals as pharmacists, physios and medics?

    Personally I am ashamed to say I ever trained in the UK now the AECC and Glamorgan School of Chiropractic Physical Therapists have backed this!

    Are the BCA so ashamed they never had the grades for medical colleges?

    I heard it said before – why don’t chiropractors like BCA chiros not just leave the prfoession and become whatever it is they want to become without destroying our beloved profession?!

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