ASA will not reveal details of the chiropractic experts who are advising them. You know how to boil frogs?

August 24, 2010
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Boiling-Frogs I wrote to the ASA asking them about their “Chiropractic experts” (I suspect they are “academics” who are on the GCC council). I also asked about the advice Osteopaths are giving their members in relation to making claims regarding digestive and circulatory problems. http://www.chiropracticlive.com/?p=826

This week the GCC met with all the UK associations and told them to relax everything was going to be fine, now the associations have convinced the vast majority of chiropractors to save the GCC by agreeing to waiver public hearings for the 700 complaints. Below is what the ASA have to say.

Dear Richard,

Thank you for your e-mail. Firstly, I would like to sincerely apologise for the delay in responding to you. We have been receiving a significant volume of enquiries during what is a very busy period for the organisation. I am sorry for any inconvenience that may have been caused by not getting back to you sooner.

In answer to your question, the ASA does have a list of expert advisers in a wide range of fields, whom we can call on it we are investigating a complaint about an ad with a particularly complex subject. However, we do not always require this external help, so I cannot guarantee that it was needed for the adjudication in question. Unfortunately, we cannot release the details of the experts we use, but they are often from universities, other regulators, Government departments etc.

In relation to your second point regarding the treatment of digestive and circulatory conditions, I would suggest you get in touch with Copy Advice, which is a free, confidential advice service for any non-broadcast advertisers, agencies and media owners. Copy Advice can advise on any questions you have about the advertising of your services. You can find out more information about Copy Advice, here.

Kind regards,

Michael

Michael Todd | Policy and Public Affairs Officer

Direct line 020 7492 2121 | E-mail michaelt@asa.org.uk

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  • http://drsadlon.com/wordpress/articles/we-can-be-your-source-for-cold-and-flu-help/ chiropractor rochester ny

    Sharing this useful and attractive information and I will be waiting for
    other interesting posts from you in the nearest future.keep it up.

  • joepublic

    @Paul & fed up

    Prize for inaccurate reporting of academic work -

    What a shame this prize doesn’t also cover scientists/science journals:

    http://deevybee.blogspot.com/2010/06/orwellian-prize-for-journalistic.html

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    “This is the first time the Council members have met the assoc reps enmasse and been able to have discussion/ questions given without intermediaries.That is the difference”.

    @dazed
    I somtimes comfort myself with the fact that Coats and Dixon only get away with what they do because only about 25% of the profession read this blog regularly. So it comes as a bit of a shock that some one who knows about all the goings on of Price, Coats and Dixon and how often they have misled the profession would believes it is going to be different this time. Different would be Coats and Dixon not involved in the meetings rather than setting their agenda. This is about them saving their bacon, not due to the fact Margaret and Peter have been born again.

    In 2002 the profession elected 10 chiropractic members of council Dana Greene, Kevin Grant, Madeline Brez…… from McT; Matt Flanagan and Kevin Proudman from the UCA, Carla How from the SCA and four BCA members: Peter Dixon, Steve Williams, Michael Copeland Grifiths and Dafid Byfield. This council was as good as it was going to get for traditional chiropractic, unfortunately they were not able to reel in Coats or the medipractor influence of the political elite.

    We have clear evidence of how Coats defined Subluxation last time http://www.chiropracticlive.com/?p=670 . Now McTimoney are telling their members that meetings with a Council hand picked by Coats and Dixon could be more productive than previous councils. I dont know whether to laugh or cry.

    Are you saying these new reformed council members (including Christina Cunliffe) knew nothing about subluxation until these meetings, and now “following informed and vigorous representation by MCA representatives as part of the Alliance, the GCC has agreed to alter the guidance on claims for the VSC”. This only a few months after the GCC/BCA alliance deciding to ditch subluxation on the say so of Skeptic Barista, and the BCA’s new modernist agenda.

  • fed up

    And three of his references where written in 1934, 1947 and 1954.lol

  • fed up

    Funny how in this review over 10% of the reference material used is by the author of the review. Yet another cases of total bias by a so called prof.

  • Paul

    “I understand that the ASA have previously used Ernst in a case against a chiropractor!!!”

    Anyone seen this literary genius’s latest slander on the profession?

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/726445

  • Myelin Sheets

    Nov 30th?
    excuse the ignorance but is that the date of coucil elections?
    what does anybody forsee in the run up to then or more importsantly, afterward?

    thanks for summary of Alliance meeting. leopard or chameleon – both are good predators, and often place themselves to fit the background.

  • dazed

    I am suggesting that direct communication in an open forum enables fruitful discussion and a robust exchange of views so that individuals can consider the pros and cons in the round.

  • Paul

    Dazed are you intimating that Peter and Margaret may have been massaging the information?

    Not quite lying but ala Tony Blair – telling it as they wanted it seen and reacted to?

    Many upstanding people call this lying I would like for the record to disagree and call it political speak.

    Were Peter and Margaret passing on information received in a somewhat political manner and where upon that information was passed in full – truth was fully recogonised?

  • dazed

    Nicely said Stefaan.

    I have read the report from the GCC/ association meeting and perhaps the significance of a key fact has eluded some readers.

    It seems that the Chair (Peter Dixon) and CEO/ Registrar (Margaret Coats) have regular meetings with representatives of the UCA, MCA, SCA, MCA and CoC. Reports of these meetings are given by PD & MC to the Council.

    This recent meeting included the whole of the General Chiropractic Council ie all the Chiros and all the lay members plus the association reps. This is the first time the Council members have met the assoc reps enmasse and been able to have discussion/ questions given without intermediaries.

    That is the difference.

  • http://www.chiropractorswarwick.co.uk Stefaan Vossen

    It seems to me that the launch of the Alliance may well have been very opportune in its timing and in the nature of its effort. I don’t think that anything can be taken away from the Alliance and am looking forward to attending the BCA’s AGM on the 18th of September. Maybe the difference 2010 is offering is a greater transparency and more widely spread access to communication channels (like these). I feel that increased interest in blogging, tweeting et al are making failing to be transparent impossible or at least conspicuous. Thanking the so-called sceptics!
    Stefaan
    It is only just beginning

  • Rosemary

    Richard,
    I agree with you. The news from Dazed leaves me thinking, if the GCC have acquiesced so quickly as a result of one meeting, I’m left wondering all the furore was in the first place – which then leaves me thinking that it could well be a pretense to placate the Alliance. It’s as though the GCC has rolled over too easily and too quickly.

    As you say Richard, the end of November is significant. It reminds me of that kid’s game I used to play – “What’s the time, Mr Wolf?” Come December 1st, it could be “Dinner time!”

  • dazed

    Dont shoot the messenger Richard. I’m just passing on the news and didn’t offer an opinion.

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    I am having a wonderfull time in France and promised Janette I would not blog,so tell me Dazed why you think this time will be different from my account in its a bit premature for Zeno and the GCC to pronounce the end of Subluxation. Surely you don’t believe Margaret Coats,Peter Dixon and Christina Cunliffe became trustworthy while I have been in France.

    Do GCC lepords change their spots?

    Ask Dana Greene what she thinks,Madeline, Kevin Proudman,Matt Flanigan they were the last people Coats consulted regarding the subluxation.

    Coats will say anything to get chiropractors past Nov 30

  • dazed

    News from the GCC/ Associations meeting (17th August 2010) via the MCA

    “ALLIANCE SUCCESS!

    You will recall that we told you about an important meeting which took place on 17 August 2010 between the General Chiropractic Council and representatives the Alliance of UK Chiropractors (MCA, SCA and UCA) and the BCA.

    This unprecedented meeting allowed for members of the GCC to converse openly and directly with the professional association representatives, without intermediaries. It was a first in terms of intra-professional communications and provided the opportunity for an important breakthrough.

    One of the issues discussed at the meeting was the Verterbral Subluxation Complex (VSC), the definition of which was amended by the GCC on its website earlier this year, a move which caused considerable concern amongst chiropractors. A lengthy and detailed presentation was made by the Alliance about the VSC and a substantial 120 page dossier entitled The Vertebral Subluxation Complex – The History, Science, Evolution and Current Quantum Thinking on a Chiropractic Tenet was also presented to Council members. This dossier was commissioned on behalf of the AUKC and among the contributors were Christopher Kent and Bruce Lipton.

    We are delighted to be able to tell you that following informed and vigorous representation by MCA representatives as part of the Alliance, the GCC has agreed to alter the guidance on claims for the VSC. The revised wording will reflect the fact that the term ‘subluxation’, as used by chiropractors, refers to functional derangements of the spine and that functional derangements of the spine are the basis for health concerns. The GCC will also restore on to the FAQ section of the GCC website a definition of a subluxation – the precise wording will be drafted by the Comunications Advisory Group (upon which the MCA is represented) and agreed by the Alliance.

    The issue of revalidation was also discussed and Council are now fully aware of the concerns that the MCA has about not only the process but also the tenets on which revalidation has been based. It became evident during the discussion on this issue that some Council members also share our concerns.

    We believe that these outcomes represent an early sign that the GCC is prepared to take action as a direct result of the combined voices of chiropractors, through the Alliance. Council members welcomed the opportunity to meet representatives of the profession face to face and expressed the wish to continue with this forum for communication between registrants and Council. The MCA will be building on the progress made at that meeting.”

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    The ASA have referenced Ernst, however they would not presume him to be an expert on chiropractic and as I have previously said the views of chiropractic council member and head of the Glamorgan school David Byfield and Ernst are very similar http://www.chiropracticlive.com/?p=102

    BCA president Richard Brown when he was the expert witness for BCA member Roger White in 2002, was being questioned over Rogers use of subluxation as a diagnosis. Brown stated that if a student gave subluxation as a diagnosis in an exam he would fail the student. Roger was not happy with his BCA expert after that.

  • andy

    I understand that the ASA have previously used Ernst in a case against a chiropractor!!!

  • Paul

    WHAT??????

    PLEASE NO

    Wasn’t this new alliance supposed to bring about change?

    Peter has proven himself to be a toad time and time again.

    It’s this ‘new’ alliance that perhaps should feel shame…

    ‘fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me’

  • http://spinaljoint.com Richard Lanigan

    Let me put it like this. There was a meeting between the BCA, the GCC and the alliance of the UCA, the SCA and McTimoney to discuss recent events. They could not all have left the meeting happy unless Peter Dixon did his usual trick and had a quiet word with each group and told them exactly what they wanted to hear.

    Fool them once shame on Peter fool them again and again……

  • Paul

    Sorry Richard have the SCA and UCA agreed to placate their members to save the GCC?

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